2011-08-16T00:13:09 with pullrequest in https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/827096 2011-08-16T00:29:09 dbs++ 2011-08-16T00:31:26 *** dbs has quit IRC 2011-08-16T00:34:07 *** charltgm has quit IRC 2011-08-16T04:05:45 *** b_bonner has quit IRC 2011-08-16T04:07:30 *** mcarlson has quit IRC 2011-08-16T05:49:34 *** mcarlson has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T05:49:34 *** b_bonner has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T07:55:30 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T08:58:55 *** dbs has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:02:24 grabbing 0600 and 0601 2011-08-16T09:04:13 *** akilsdonk has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:06:21 *** matt_carlson has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:08:03 *** matt_carlson has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:09:42 *** yboston has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:10:26 *** Meliss has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:14:07 go go gadget eeevil 2011-08-16T09:19:33 *** kmlussier has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:19:53 dbs: did you have a chance to test 799719? if so, I'm on a merging roll (role?) 2011-08-16T09:20:03 * dbs will peek 2011-08-16T09:20:17 *** jenny has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:20:59 yeah, don't pull that 2011-08-16T09:21:05 righto 2011-08-16T09:21:49 I'll push the same fix that I suggested to bjwebb for the same problem in OpenSRF 2011-08-16T09:22:35 *** sfortin has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:22:37 k 2011-08-16T09:23:24 * phasefx smoketested collab/dbs/autogen_cleanup with no errors, though falling down a likely unrelated rabbit hole of "why isn't my bib record showing up?" 2011-08-16T09:23:31 hah 2011-08-16T09:23:50 if multiclass.query is considering my records as "excluded", how can I tell why? 2011-08-16T09:23:52 annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd ... meeting 2011-08-16T09:24:14 * dbs has no good answer for that question 2011-08-16T09:24:53 phasefx: they're visibility-excluded ... you mean, which component is causing that? you'd have to look at specific records 2011-08-16T09:25:11 *** matt_carlson has quit IRC 2011-08-16T09:25:17 copy counts are showing 0 if I tcn search one 2011-08-16T09:26:20 * eeevil should write a quick SP to do that -- take a search, get the EXCEPT of staff and non-staff versions, list all the visibility-related fields 2011-08-16T09:26:46 phasefx: TCN search doesn't use multiclass, of course. so the copies are not "there" ... 2011-08-16T09:26:56 * eeevil goes into radio silence 2011-08-16T09:27:14 * phasefx figured it out.. was testing out the org unit admin interface.. created a non-opac visible org, and my items happened to fall into it 2011-08-16T09:29:54 hah 2011-08-16T09:29:58 that would do it :) 2011-08-16T09:30:59 first time I've ever done that; took me a moment 2011-08-16T09:41:45 *** Callender has quit IRC 2011-08-16T09:42:37 *** phasetest has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:43:39 *** Callender has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T09:46:39 gmail's arrow/home/end key woes are going to drive me nuts :) if only I were to use an open source mail client installed on a machine I control.. *sigh* :) 2011-08-16T09:51:46 phasefx: vi-ish j and k work, fwiw 2011-08-16T09:54:07 call me crazy.. i just went back to Mutt. 2011-08-16T09:54:24 i may be in love, but it's too soon to tell 2011-08-16T09:54:31 you, sir, are crazy 2011-08-16T09:55:06 berick++ 2011-08-16T09:59:44 eeevil: j and k work for some things. I have to hold Control down when pressing the arrow keys for their normal behavior 2011-08-16T10:03:32 ahh 2011-08-16T10:04:44 * dbs doesn't even know what phasefx is trying to do with the arrow keys 2011-08-16T10:04:55 * dbs is bilingual - mutt and gmail 2011-08-16T10:05:19 essentially page up and page down more slowly than space or the page up and page down keys would do 2011-08-16T10:06:07 phasefx: that's what the mouse wheel is for! :) 2011-08-16T10:06:36 mice wheels.. :( 2011-08-16T10:06:39 or (shudder) a trackpad with multi-touch gestures 2011-08-16T10:07:06 * phasefx has a trackpad, a trackball, and an "eraser nub". multi-touch disabled, since this isn't a mac and Logitech/Dell can't do it right 2011-08-16T10:08:23 * dbs loves his eraser nub / nipple 2011-08-16T10:08:31 *** StephenGWills has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T10:08:32 thinkpads forevah 2011-08-16T10:08:38 :D 2011-08-16T10:08:42 also, trackpad disabled 2011-08-16T10:09:16 *** sal_ has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T10:09:44 *** matt_carlson has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T10:10:12 * phasefx do like, but is out of practice (nubs) 2011-08-16T10:11:56 Re 2.1 RC2, is 37/38 (fee paid) support in, or do I have to patch again? My 37 message seems to be disappearing into the ether... 2011-08-16T10:12:09 * tsbere hangs up the phone, and it rings 2011-08-16T10:12:23 * tsbere leaves the phone off the hook to spite it, the other phone rings 2011-08-16T10:12:39 * tsbere leaves all 4 landlines in the room off the hook, his cell phone rings 2011-08-16T10:12:48 it's a feature 2011-08-16T10:13:29 sal_: I don't think the 37/38 is going into 2.1 at all officially, so until you are playing with 2.2 you will have to patch it in 2011-08-16T10:14:02 * deep sigh 2011-08-16T10:14:30 just run master like the masochists 2011-08-16T10:14:33 Do I need to build from source, or is there an "easy" fix... 2011-08-16T10:14:34 sal_: what tsbere said. that branch was finished after 2.1-beta started, and being a new feature it didn't go in 2011-08-16T10:14:49 * joins masochists' union 2011-08-16T10:16:12 Well, I guess I could patch in chargeable loans too. 2011-08-16T10:17:04 sal_: looks like just a few commits: c394f0bac6111dd9c84ba4384da7be1ef7613728..581a37ea26e6ce9c99db6f0de5d27960527390a3 2011-08-16T10:18:24 sal_: could try cherry-pick'ing those into a local 2.1 branch 2011-08-16T10:19:14 I will admit to being a little unsure about mechanics of patching/cherry picking. 2011-08-16T10:20:28 Last time I worked on big, collaborative project, source control was cvs/svn... Git is newish to me. 2011-08-16T10:21:07 * feels old 2011-08-16T10:23:17 dbs: looking at your lasso branch(es) now 2011-08-16T10:26:23 sal_: Wasn't too long ago that evergreen was on svn 2011-08-16T10:27:10 *** ewean has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T10:27:44 tsbere: and I've lost half my emacs keystrokes... (for some reason, vi has stuck) 2011-08-16T10:28:53 * tsbere never really got into using emacs, has stuck with vi/vim 2011-08-16T10:29:21 Probably has at least a little to do with "vi/vim is on most servers by default, emacs isn't" 2011-08-16T10:29:57 dbs: for the 2.0 backport branch, shall I just make a dummy upgrade script for master/2.1 using the id from that, and doing that one first? master/2.1 are different in their db changes 2011-08-16T10:31:11 tsbere: that's one of the main reasons I use vi/vim - though the default vi on most servers ends up throwing me ;-) 2011-08-16T10:31:30 spoiled by vim! 2011-08-16T10:33:31 Checks bug 803121; looks like 37/38 has been rolled into master... (Am I misreading?) 2011-08-16T10:33:34 *** bwicksall has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T10:34:38 Learned vi first; picked up emacs via FINE when was only non-line editor available on DEC mainframe... 2011-08-16T10:35:45 never had a side in "war", although vi seems to have won me by default :-) 2011-08-16T10:36:48 * hopefully... Is 37/38 in master? Does that mean I don't have to cherry-pick for that? 2011-08-16T10:37:48 sal_: it's in master 2011-08-16T10:38:01 *** jenny has quit IRC 2011-08-16T10:38:44 eeevil: *whew* (Will probably still cherry-pick for chargeable loans :-) 2011-08-16T10:43:09 senator++ #edi_logging! 2011-08-16T10:49:59 so, staff client vague printing error yesterday was a windows issue that affected firefox and xulrunner (and likely others) but not notepad. love those. :P 2011-08-16T10:50:02 printers-- 2011-08-16T10:50:50 sorry eeevil, was on a conf call 2011-08-16T10:51:38 you could do that for the lassos; i recognized that 2.0 had a different schema, which is why I pushed a separate branch for that (I did push it, right?) 2011-08-16T10:52:22 and 2.1... I guess I forgot about 2.1 2011-08-16T10:55:49 dbs: IIRC, 2.1 isn't substantially different from master, and I can replace the check-deps SELECT with INSERT INTO config.upgrade_log 2011-08-16T10:55:52 that's no problem 2011-08-16T10:56:12 cool 2011-08-16T10:57:05 yeah, for 2.0 I pushed http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/Evergreen.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/user/dbs/lp790329_2_0 2011-08-16T10:57:11 dbs: but, since 2.0 is different enough, and to avoid confusion about what numbers mean what (they should be global), I was planning to apply 2.0 first and then create dummy upgrade scripts for master/2.1 ... then apply the real master/2.1 fixes with subsequent numbers 2011-08-16T10:57:15 right 2011-08-16T10:57:29 I have the branches, just running the plan by you for sanity checking 2011-08-16T10:57:33 * dbs hates schema upgrades 2011-08-16T10:58:20 * eeevil hates maintaining 3 schemas 2011-08-16T10:58:25 every little change feels like a ton of work 2011-08-16T10:58:38 eeevil: let's scrap rel_2_1 and go directly to rel_2_2 then! 2011-08-16T10:59:23 dbs: if the plan was (and, I'd like it to be) to move to /only/ upgrade scripts on a single baseline schema (reified once in a blue moon), would you hate them less? 2011-08-16T10:59:34 err, after the template-toolkit merge that is 2011-08-16T10:59:40 heh 2011-08-16T11:01:22 eeevil: i think i would like that more - would certainly cut down the number of errors we get when "install a clean base schema" != "install clean base schema from 10 revs ago and apply 10 upgrades" (by definition) 2011-08-16T11:02:13 now we should just prod gmcharlt to proceed with the smart schema upgrader :) 2011-08-16T11:02:43 what is this pile of bricks that just appeared over my head? 2011-08-16T11:02:49 seriously, prod received 2011-08-16T11:04:04 :) 2011-08-16T11:04:09 gmcharlt: LOVE YOU! 2011-08-16T11:04:47 also, would be nice to move to the next level of "Tap, Tap, pgTap" (it's a rhythm game, we all have to move in unison) 2011-08-16T11:06:04 grabbing 0602 2011-08-16T11:09:56 also grabbing 0603 and 0604 2011-08-16T11:10:34 *** wolf29 has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T11:15:09 '/openils/var/web/opac/skin/craftsman/xml/library_locator/find-a-lib.xsl' has a sidebar 2011-08-16T11:16:13 which seems to load from ' /openils/var/web/opac/skin/default/js/advanced.js' 2011-08-16T11:19:06 *** jenny has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T11:19:11 * dbs would recommend staying far away from craftsman if at all possible 2011-08-16T11:20:08 The links at the top are all missing '/opac/en-US/skin/craftsman/xml/' It looks like an error in the template. 2011-08-16T11:20:40 Looking at how author metabib entries are created and it's mods stuff, rather than specific marc tags. Where does the mods stuff live? 2011-08-16T11:21:00 Checking on how they're entered, having trouble with some 700 tag that our catalogers think should be indexed but apparently isn't... 2011-08-16T11:21:02 Dan, didn't you say something about how you had to do a little script to populate the skin detail? 2011-08-16T11:21:04 bshum: in the database 2011-08-16T11:21:32 bshum: typically with the 700 tag, if there's no relator (subfield 4) then the nature of the 700 is ambiguous 2011-08-16T11:21:39 * tsbere thought that some of the mods stuff was in a stylesheet or something 2011-08-16T11:22:00 tsbere: well yes 2011-08-16T11:22:17 I am wanting to stay far from craftsman, ...but... with this one I cannot help it. Evergreen 1.6.1.0 2011-08-16T11:23:57 It may never have been noticed before, and the main page links behave themselves 2011-08-16T11:24:28 bshum: see config.xml_transform, but you can also look at the XSL in Open-ILS/src/sql/Pg/95[1234].*.sql 2011-08-16T11:24:52 and these stylesheets are derived from the LoC MARC2MODS* stylesheets 2011-08-16T11:25:17 bshum: can you provide a complete example of the 700 tag & what the cataloguers think should happen? 2011-08-16T11:25:34 dbs: Are the files in /openils/var/xsl used directly? 2011-08-16T11:26:01 tsbere: by some services, yes 2011-08-16T11:26:14 not by indexing, though, which is what bshum is asking about 2011-08-16T11:26:48 dbs: Sure, here's a bib record on our system: http://ur1.ca/4xagt 2011-08-16T11:26:57 IIRC supercat / slimpac used the /openils/var/xsl files... 2011-08-16T11:26:58 It has a 700 tag with a subfield t on it. 2011-08-16T11:27:05 That doesn't show up in the author indexing 2011-08-16T11:27:32 The catalogers expected it to be indexed, but it wasn't 2011-08-16T11:27:40 The 1xx and other 700 tags were though 2011-08-16T11:28:12 so that gets converted to http://acorn.biblio.org/opac/extras/supercat/retrieve/mods32/record/2347843 2011-08-16T11:28:13 Figured it was some quirk with the record, or some unexpected tag + subfield combination 2011-08-16T11:28:42 Ah 2011-08-16T11:30:53 * dbs would argue that "black beauty" should not show up in the author index; and thinks that MODS gets it right by calling it a "related item" 2011-08-16T11:31:08 I'd be happy to argue that with our catalogers. 2011-08-16T11:31:13 :) 2011-08-16T11:31:52 dbs: bshum: yeah, that one certainly falls in the realm of site preference 2011-08-16T11:32:10 for certain types of related items (say for anthologies), would make sense to include the author's name 2011-08-16T11:32:11 that said, if they win the argument, you can adjust to a straight marc indexing strategy of datafield[@tag='700'] // "we don't care we want it all" 2011-08-16T11:32:19 for 780/785 links, perhaps not 2011-08-16T11:35:21 For the purpose of locality, we could add a new metabib entry for just the 700 tag combination that our catalogers wish for, and leave the existing ones alone right? 2011-08-16T11:35:57 bshum: author|localdef or whatever? sure 2011-08-16T11:36:01 * bshum thinks he just made up the word "locality"... :( 2011-08-16T11:36:21 author|makethecatalogershappy 2011-08-16T11:36:28 bshum repurposed locality 2011-08-16T11:36:34 bshum: it's the English language; a speaker of it isn't trying if she's not coining a new word at least twice a year ;) 2011-08-16T11:38:19 dbs++ on author|makethecatalogershappy :S 2011-08-16T11:39:18 ideally that would be catalogers|areyouhappynow so that normal user's search experience isn't affected :) 2011-08-16T11:39:44 Haha 2011-08-16T11:39:49 Indeed. 2011-08-16T11:40:16 '/openils/var/web/opac/skin/default/xml/common/sidebar.xml' looks like the framework but still can't remember where the error hit the link data 2011-08-16T11:40:31 presumably in the database. :-( 2011-08-16T11:49:04 * dbs goes get food 2011-08-16T11:49:40 *** kmlussier has quit IRC 2011-08-16T11:51:35 *** hdl_ has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T11:51:38 *** jasonb_ has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T11:54:33 *** natschil has quit IRC 2011-08-16T11:55:40 *** bjwebb has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T11:55:40 *** bjwebb has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T11:55:57 I guess we need a 2.1-rc3 target now? 2011-08-16T12:00:18 hrm. there appears to be an XI SIP2 field in SIPServer with supporting code in Evergreen back to at least rel_1_6_0, but I don't see an XI field in my messages. Anyone here use XI (FID_PATRON_INTERNAL_ID, an extension possibly for AMH?) 2011-08-16T12:01:46 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T12:03:21 jeff: I have seen it come out in our install. We currently aren't using it, though I would like to for at least one vendor 2011-08-16T12:03:54 jeff: i know kcls uses it, not sure who else. from what I recall, it's more about 3rd party apps that maintain a separate patron db, but have no way of knowing when a patron gets a new card 2011-08-16T12:04:29 * tsbere looks at clock 2011-08-16T12:04:36 Oops, meeting time? 2011-08-16T12:04:37 We appear to be overdue for a meeting 2011-08-16T12:04:49 * dbs now has food 2011-08-16T12:05:40 *** ChanServ changes topic to "Dev meeting agenda: http://ur1.ca/4xakv | Welcome to the #Evergreen library system channel! | We are publicly logged. | Large pastes at http://pastebin.ca or http://paste.lisp.org/new/evergreen or something like that" 2011-08-16T12:06:06 we should add to the agenda: "Change #evergreen topic back to normal at end of meeting" :) 2011-08-16T12:06:20 +1 2011-08-16T12:06:45 Action item for *every* meeting in here! 2011-08-16T12:06:46 I'll minutize 2011-08-16T12:06:46 there's supybot meeting plugin, actually, that could handle that for us :) 2011-08-16T12:06:55 and.. "use leftover conf. funds to order in food for all irc meeting attendees" 2011-08-16T12:07:17 +1 berick! 2011-08-16T12:07:47 need a meeting leader 2011-08-16T12:08:22 I would lead if the phone were less annoying today 2011-08-16T12:08:26 * tsbere answers said phone 2011-08-16T12:09:26 I can walk us through. 2011-08-16T12:09:53 bshum++ dbs++ 2011-08-16T12:09:57 * bshum puts on leader mantle... 2011-08-16T12:10:01 3. Review past action items. 2011-08-16T12:10:17 gmcharlt working on bugs 2011-08-16T12:10:25 3 for you, one for eeevil it seems 2011-08-16T12:10:48 bshum: yep 2011-08-16T12:10:51 The logs from previous had indicated they would be merged in, but the LP bug status is still unknown. 2011-08-16T12:13:11 Looks like LP 740320 is under pullrequest review from eeevil 2011-08-16T12:14:37 Do we have a volunteer to check that out later (or should we save pullrequests to discuss under the agenda item about the pullrequests meeting) 2011-08-16T12:14:48 bshum: let's move it 2011-08-16T12:15:26 Alright, the other 3 bugs are in varying states of status, let's just make a note to go update those. 2011-08-16T12:15:30 Moving on to new business 2011-08-16T12:15:47 4.I. Review pullrequest meeting, and decide if we want to continue them (gmcharlt) 2011-08-16T12:16:23 Thoughts, discussion on that? 2011-08-16T12:16:28 so general call for comments and votes ... was it useful? shall we continue it every other week? or continue it with a different schedule? 2011-08-16T12:17:49 * dbs wasn't able to attend, so doesn't have an informed opinion 2011-08-16T12:17:55 i thought it was useful, particularly to have everyone handy for asking questions about branches, etc. 2011-08-16T12:19:59 I thought it was useful in a "bring attention to the pile of bugs needing review" way 2011-08-16T12:20:57 ok, shall we do it next week? 2011-08-16T12:21:02 +1 2011-08-16T12:21:07 +1 2011-08-16T12:21:11 is it then also for "bring attention to bugs" rather that than just pull requests? 2011-08-16T12:21:59 and if so should it be called "bug review" meeting or something? 2011-08-16T12:22:22 jamesrf: I'm not opposed to including bug discussion, although I feel that it's primary purpose should be dealing with pull requests 2011-08-16T12:23:01 I would agree with that, more intense bug review seems like something that our head bug wrangler and team should discuss and get on the schedule too. 2011-08-16T12:23:12 so what is the appropriate place for saying "hey i did a little work on this bug and i need a bit of help moving it along" 2011-08-16T12:23:55 the model is git clone/co, fix and enhance and request pulls back to core? this meeting is to review those requests for pulling back to core? 2011-08-16T12:26:23 StephenGWills: yes but not "this" meeting in the sense of today's meeting, but the pullrequest meeting towhich we are referring 2011-08-16T12:27:13 right. tx. I would +1 one more of those in hope of learning something :) 2011-08-16T12:27:53 jamesrf: I'm not a dev, so I'm not sure if I'm right, but if you need bug help, it seems to me that asking about it in IRC or throwing it to the dev mailing list would be the next step if the bug is as far as you can go so far. 2011-08-16T12:28:14 Any other thoughts about the pullrequests meeting before we move on? 2011-08-16T12:28:22 ^ 2011-08-16T12:28:48 sorry, cat on keys. 2011-08-16T12:28:49 For notes: Pullrequest meeting set for next Tuesday, 2011-08-23 at 12 pm EST 2011-08-16T12:29:09 Alright then, 4. II. Drum up testing volunteers for upcoming 2.1.0 release. 2011-08-16T12:30:28 Balsam has a meeting in a few days. Can ask them if they will bang on a EC2 copy. 2011-08-16T12:30:47 bshum: I have upgraded from 2.0 to rc1 and will be up doing another upgrade today to rc2 2011-08-16T12:31:09 rsoulliere told me yesterday that he's planning on testing media booking in RC2 2011-08-16T12:31:12 Will get back with observations 2011-08-16T12:31:13 It looked like _bott_ had done some testing with the upgrade scripts too, if the bug over the weekend was anything. 2011-08-16T12:31:22 and we've got a largish customer who's test system will be upgraded to RC2 this week 2011-08-16T12:31:31 gmcharlt++ 2011-08-16T12:31:50 sitka is a bit held back on testing it by the postgres 9 req. 2011-08-16T12:32:37 Biblio is testing the 2.1 upgrade script later today, so I'll report any oddities we encounter. 2011-08-16T12:32:44 * bshum hoping for smooth transitions :) 2011-08-16T12:33:12 What should the timeline look like for testing? 2011-08-16T12:33:15 <_bott_> bshum: indeed, I have, no major issues 2011-08-16T12:33:33 (i.e. when are we expecting to put a stamp on 2.1.0?) 2011-08-16T12:33:36 before we move into TT opac (sorry, fires) fwiw, 740320 isn't under review /by/ me, I posted a pullrequest branch -- someone want to review? ... and a big fat +1 from me on pullrequestfest :) 2011-08-16T12:34:27 bshum: if we can get 3-5 sites to test within the next 2 weeks, with the upcoming pullrequestfest I'd say 2 weeks is do-able 2011-08-16T12:34:37 but, that's just opinion and speculation 2011-08-16T12:35:59 Alrighty, just looking to get a sense of how much time we were looking at. 2011-08-16T12:36:11 eeevil: Thanks for the clarification about the bug :) 2011-08-16T12:36:51 bshum: it's overdue as it is, but testing is needed :( 2011-08-16T12:37:06 then we can start pouring the awesome into master again! :) 2011-08-16T12:37:31 For 2.1 testing, shall we agree to talk about this again in the coming weeks, but also mark it down as an action item to discuss test results during the next dev meeting. 2011-08-16T12:37:51 If not sooner ;) 2011-08-16T12:37:54 yes, and during the next pullrequest meeting :) 2011-08-16T12:37:54 bshum: maybe a 2.1 testing thread on open-ils-dev? 2011-08-16T12:38:05 for async goodnes 2011-08-16T12:38:07 s 2011-08-16T12:38:22 dbs: That sounds good actually. That way we have a running thread of what's being tested and how. 2011-08-16T12:38:47 wild aside: http://git.evergreen-ils.org/gitstats/Evergreen/authors.html needs updating - gitadmins want to throw a cron job up or something? :) 2011-08-16T12:40:12 heh "Generated: 2011-08-16 01:10:27 (in 26 seconds)" - okay 2011-08-16T12:40:28 sorry, back to agenda 2011-08-16T12:41:49 Alright, next up (if nothing else), is TT-OPAC goodness. 2011-08-16T12:42:08 Is anyone testing berick's merged branch? 2011-08-16T12:42:40 I merged master and the latest changes from the esi branch today, fwiw 2011-08-16T12:42:51 I believe we have a machine with it being tested 2011-08-16T12:43:03 Dyrcona is on vacation, however, and he would be the contact for any issues. 2011-08-16T12:44:36 It would be good to get a reproducible bug report for the "My Lists" issue he's experiencing 2011-08-16T12:45:11 Seems to only happen on *his* account. Mine works fine. 2011-08-16T12:45:30 *** youdonotexist has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T12:45:32 * dbs wonders if it's a difference in browsers, browser plugins, etc 2011-08-16T12:45:55 Note that mine works fine in his browser and his doesn't work in my browser 2011-08-16T12:46:01 so I think not on that front 2011-08-16T12:46:04 If that's the only known *possible* bug ,then we're in hella-good shape 2011-08-16T12:46:10 or not very tested 2011-08-16T12:46:31 tsbere: ah, I'm betting it's the content of the list then. Unescaped & or something 2011-08-16T12:47:05 * tsbere can get some of his list out of the db 2011-08-16T12:47:09 * berick would be interested in such a bug report 2011-08-16T12:49:05 so - merge-ready as-is? or do we want more testing? 2011-08-16T12:49:17 i'm on the side of merging sooner rather than later, because i think it will result in more eyes on the code (and we can kill all these topic branches). 2011-08-16T12:49:37 +1 2011-08-16T12:49:58 my only question, if we were to merge today, is do I rip out the templates_kcls folder? i'm assuming yes, but was unclear on whether that still served a purpose 2011-08-16T12:50:33 yeah, I would rip that out and keep it in an equinox branch - it's useful as a demonstration of skinnability, but doesn't need to be in core (IMO) 2011-08-16T12:50:46 sounds good 2011-08-16T12:50:52 and I agree 2011-08-16T12:51:13 once it's merged, then we can continue work on replacing the SlimPAC "Basic Catalog" with TT, flesh out its capabilities (MFHD display etc), and RULE THE OPAC WORLD ONCE MORE 2011-08-16T12:51:39 shall we make it a vote, then? 2011-08-16T12:51:53 or perhaps a -dev list vote? 2011-08-16T12:52:21 might as well -dev list it 2011-08-16T12:53:15 I'll take the action item 2011-08-16T12:53:22 Derailing the agenda once more with a non-agenda item: bjwebb (GSoC student) has been pretty quiet on his repos on git.evergreen-ils.org, but pretty busy over at https://gitorious.org/evergreen-bjwebb on various packaging efforts 2011-08-16T12:53:49 * bjwebb comes out of lurking mode 2011-08-16T12:53:54 * berick will send a vote call to open-ils-dev re:t-pac then 2011-08-16T12:54:21 This is the GSoC students' final paid week - not that they're not allowed to keep participating of course - but it might be a good idea to poke them soon if you have any questions for them 2011-08-16T12:54:24 bjwebb++ 2011-08-16T12:54:42 * dbs thanks berick for allowing him to escape the action item 2011-08-16T12:55:49 * berick likes moving things along ;) 2011-08-16T12:55:49 bjwebb: you want to make note of the unstable debs that are in the pipe? 2011-08-16T12:56:16 * dbs needs to run to the next meeting in t-4 minutes 2011-08-16T12:56:44 yeah, so quite a few of the missing dependencies are now in debian unstable 2011-08-16T12:56:46 http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=bjwebb67@googlemail.com 2011-08-16T12:57:30 and i think due to the current state of testing, that should mean they'll make their way into the next release 2011-08-16T12:57:56 which is _awesome_ 2011-08-16T12:57:59 sweet 2011-08-16T12:57:59 ++ 2011-08-16T12:59:16 * tsbere is manually removing one item at a time from a bookbag then refreshing the TT OPAC my list page to see when it starts loading 2011-08-16T12:59:43 JavaScript::SpiderMonkey is only needed for the (deprecated) script-based circ now, is that right? 2011-08-16T13:01:16 I'm a bit lost on where we ended up off agenda. But there wasn't much left either. 2011-08-16T13:01:38 I want to make a motion that we move the patch review portion of the agenda into the pullrequest meetings. 2011-08-16T13:02:01 +1 2011-08-16T13:02:33 +1 2011-08-16T13:02:37 +1 2011-08-16T13:03:40 Alright then. 2011-08-16T13:03:59 The last agenda items are release statuses and the next meeting. 2011-08-16T13:04:25 Next meeting time is set for Tuesday, August 30th then, at 12 pm EST. (it's wrong on the current wiki page) 2011-08-16T13:05:05 bshum++ 2011-08-16T13:05:13 Other than the new releases that were cut last week, is there anything else that we need to discuss before we adjourn? 2011-08-16T13:05:26 *** mrpeters-isl has quit IRC 2011-08-16T13:07:38 Alright, then, for now, I call this meeting to a close. 2011-08-16T13:07:43 Thanks everyone! 2011-08-16T13:09:53 thanks bshum 2011-08-16T13:10:33 Also, bjwebb++ #packaging work 2011-08-16T13:11:33 thanks 2011-08-16T13:13:04 *** hdl_ has quit IRC 2011-08-16T13:23:09 * tsbere is starting to wonder if Dyrcona's my list issue is related to "TT OPAC dislikes long My Lists" 2011-08-16T13:24:44 Anyone here with experience running the staff client in a terminal services environment? I'm considering staff testing via RDP with about a half dozen potential users at once, probably fewer in practice. 2011-08-16T13:25:27 I've run the staff client via RDP plenty of times before, this would be in a multi-user terminal services running on win2k3 or win2k8 situation. 2011-08-16T13:25:55 Ooooh. With 2 "My List" groupings and 34 total items I get random internal server errors on refresh 2011-08-16T13:26:13 *** mrpeters-isl has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T13:26:21 jeff: So long as no two people are using the same profile folder I think you will be fine 2011-08-16T13:26:38 *** mrpeters-isl has quit IRC 2011-08-16T13:26:49 *** mrpeters-isl has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T13:28:49 jeff: I'd just be afraid of resource usage with long-running SC sessions 2011-08-16T13:31:03 So, on TT OPAC My List issues, I am thinking that, at least with the settings on our dev machines, 30-40 items (total) causes issues with memory or something that results in internal server errors. 2011-08-16T13:32:18 6 second timeouts? 2011-08-16T13:32:35 Sometimes instant. Sometimes they take a while to return failures. 2011-08-16T13:33:17 And with 34 items on two lists (one list has 4, the other 30) I get results in the TT OPAC sometimes, and instant Internal Server Error other times. 2011-08-16T13:33:48 makes me doubt that there is a problem with one of the records causing it 2011-08-16T13:37:01 eeevil: thanks. depending on our license situation and difficulty to set it up, i might just do 1-2 machines for people to RDP into after scheduling appointment slots (yay calendaring) 2011-08-16T13:40:16 tsbere: the lists interface should grow paging features (both for the lists themselves and the items in them). not hugely difficult; it'll need them eventually anyway. 2011-08-16T13:40:31 that's not to say there wouldn't be value in finding where the memory bottleneck is, or whatever the problem might me 2011-08-16T13:41:27 senator: I don't have shell access (or at least I don't think I do) to the dev machine in question. Makes it harder to debug if I wanted to try. 2011-08-16T13:41:52 * tsbere was hoping to find a single record causing issues, and then being able to provide the MARC for it 2011-08-16T13:46:46 tsbere: any empty tags? 2011-08-16T13:46:59 *** sfortin has quit IRC 2011-08-16T13:47:12 mrpeters-isl: You mean in the list when it does load? 2011-08-16T13:47:17 been having tons of internal server errors on records that have just an = somewhere in them 2011-08-16T13:47:27 i gave an example friday...let me dig that up 2011-08-16T13:47:58 mrpeters-isl: The entire list currently loads randomly now. A bad tag would, IMO, likely cause a constant failure. 2011-08-16T13:48:16 ah yeah probably not the issue the 2011-08-16T13:48:56 checked the postgres logs at the same time as the internal server error? 2011-08-16T13:50:07 The db server supports multiple servers. And I don't have shell access to the actual dev server. 2011-08-16T13:50:21 :( 2011-08-16T13:51:53 i bet there'd be some good clues in the postgres log 2011-08-16T14:04:14 Is there any significance to the last_xact_id on a "patron's barcode was replaced, and the last_xact_id grew a value then" situation? 2011-08-16T14:04:28 As in, is there anything useful encoded in there? 2011-08-16T14:21:59 *** kmlussier has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T14:30:18 tsbere: strictly speaking, there's some time information embedded, but no, ascribe no significance -- it's defined as an opaque op-locking key 2011-08-16T14:30:36 * tsbere suspected that was the case 2011-08-16T14:30:42 have you had any need to increase shmmax kernel parameter to increase postgresql performance? 2011-08-16T14:30:59 Yes it is a non-sequitor 2011-08-16T14:32:38 wolf29: yes 2011-08-16T14:32:40 wolf29: Yes, we have. 2011-08-16T14:32:43 I seem to recall needing to do that on the Balsam production slice 2011-08-16T14:32:55 wolf29: "you" in general? yes, you should tune pg to your hardware and data size, and that will almost certainly require changing shmem settings 2011-08-16T14:33:16 in my opinion, once you get to that level of tweaking, you're out of Evergreen documentation land and into PostgreSQL documentation land 2011-08-16T14:33:39 a pointer to relevant PostgreSQL docs would be good, of course 2011-08-16T14:33:49 * eeevil points at http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Tuning_Your_PostgreSQL_Server 2011-08-16T14:34:04 I pgtuned my test server, and it is requiring shmmem, even when I go back to the original postgresql.conf 2011-08-16T14:34:13 thanks eevil 2011-08-16T14:34:57 all fits into that "one day really must create README.production" to cover multi-server installs, increasing memcached RAM, postgresql tuning, etc 2011-08-16T14:35:17 I think I fell out of the evergreen a couple of hours ago and am being chased by the psql elephant. 2011-08-16T14:35:36 I am working on the notes for that doc, dbs 2011-08-16T14:36:35 *** jasonb_ has quit IRC 2011-08-16T14:39:18 I have two thoughts for receipt template macros. In part inspired by what our libraries are trying to do with javascript. 2011-08-16T14:39:31 * StephenGWills wonders if it would be easier to make a case for PostgreSQL being a separate concern if Evergreen were db independant, i.e. mysql or Oracle drivers etc. 2011-08-16T14:39:50 dbwells: I'm doing some Vandelay testing in master today and can take a look at 827523 to see if I can replicate the issue there. 2011-08-16T14:40:38 kmlussier, thank you. Please let me know if you have any questions. 2011-08-16T14:40:45 One macro would be "SORT" that would actually be done before line_items are processed, to sort the line_items in a specific manner. The other would pull OU settings (perhaps just from a group like ui.receipt?) for inclusion in templates. 2011-08-16T14:42:37 StephenGWills: No, I think the case is easy. We don't provide anything beyond minimal docs for any of our dependencies. Anything we depend on has its own documentation, and we have enough Evergreen-specific holes in our docs that reproducing another project's documentation in ours is close to wasted effort. 2011-08-16T14:42:51 In my opinion, of course. 2011-08-16T14:44:02 * dbs wonders if gmcharlt's schema upgrade effort becomes another option on eg_db_config.pl 2011-08-16T14:44:34 dbs: reasonable place to put it 2011-08-16T14:44:43 or at least let eg_db_confg.pl invoke it 2011-08-16T14:45:16 *** wolf29 has quit IRC 2011-08-16T14:51:48 * dbs sees updated Vandelay interface for the first time in a while (with enhanced import / overlay / quality options), nice! 2011-08-16T14:52:39 *** wolf29 has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T14:55:37 when you recompiled the balsam kernel, did you keep notes? 2011-08-16T14:56:20 * dbs wonders why kernels are getting recompiled 2011-08-16T14:56:28 I am going to try to do the same thing, since it seems to be working well 2011-08-16T14:56:43 "where angels fear to tread" 2011-08-16T14:57:07 for what reason? 2011-08-16T14:58:10 because my conf fole won't let postgresql rise without increase in MMem 2011-08-16T14:58:22 wrong venue perhaps? ;-) 2011-08-16T14:59:03 perhaps :-) 2011-08-16T14:59:03 The kernal was not recompiled. 2011-08-16T14:59:31 there used to be a wiki and i know the shrmax setting was recorded there. I'll dig in my notebooks 2011-08-16T15:00:01 Thanks! 2011-08-16T15:00:25 fwiw, on our debian system /etc/sysctl.conf has "kernel.shmmax = 8787607552 / kernel.shmmni = 8192" 2011-08-16T15:00:34 (one of our systems, anyway) 2011-08-16T15:01:07 as I recall, I stole my numbers from dbs' coffeecode blog and tweaked until the server stopped barfing on the number. *g* 2011-08-16T15:01:52 as root, you could dynamically increase those values via "sysctl -w kernel.shmmax=8787607552" etc 2011-08-16T15:02:01 * tsbere tends to use the postgresql error "I need at least X" number as a starting point 2011-08-16T15:02:24 50% of available RAM is probably a good starting point for shmmax 2011-08-16T15:02:41 thanks and thanks 2011-08-16T15:02:41 from my experiences, at least 2011-08-16T15:02:42 Balsam's 1.6 install was shoehorned into what we could afford as opposed to being deployed on adaquate hardware. it's a rural Maine thing. 2011-08-16T15:03:04 * dbs concurs with tsbere 2011-08-16T15:03:32 StephenGWills: I thought that was a "any average library group anywhere" thing 2011-08-16T15:03:43 +1 to that! 2011-08-16T15:03:44 ejabberd communicates using two tuna cans and an old guitar string. 2011-08-16T15:03:49 lol 2011-08-16T15:04:06 * dbs testing t-pac merge branch with templates_kcls removed and /openils/var/web wiped prior to install 2011-08-16T15:04:42 +1 StephenKWills - I never realized how much I wanted to learn erlang before I started messing with ejabberd 2011-08-16T15:04:59 dbs++ 2011-08-16T15:05:17 wolf29: nobody does... 2011-08-16T15:05:19 mmm 2011-08-16T15:05:26 first death: egweb: template error: file error - default/opac/parts/result/paginate.tt2 2011-08-16T15:06:17 and indeed there is no paginate.tt2 2011-08-16T15:06:25 *sigh* it's in the old template dir 2011-08-16T15:06:32 thought I caught that in the merge 2011-08-16T15:06:49 * berick is still working from a pre-template-shuffle branch 2011-08-16T15:07:41 dbs: want me to push a fix or are you already doing it? 2011-08-16T15:07:44 ah, conflict between my move to /openils/var/templates and some features you had added? 2011-08-16T15:07:53 yeah 2011-08-16T15:07:55 If you have it handy, that would be great 2011-08-16T15:07:59 k, sec 2011-08-16T15:08:27 testing++ :) 2011-08-16T15:10:21 dbs: pushed 2011-08-16T15:13:19 berick++ # works 2011-08-16T15:14:11 *** sfortin has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T15:14:12 results have some funky "XML::LibXML::Element=SCALAR(0x7fcac473fa40)XML::LibXML::Element=SCALAR(0x7fcac46aafd8)" stuff between the "Results 1 - 10 of 83" and the first hit, but works 2011-08-16T15:14:48 I'll push the deletion of templates_kcls into your collab branch 2011-08-16T15:14:55 unless you have any objections 2011-08-16T15:15:18 no objections 2011-08-16T15:15:36 pushed 2011-08-16T15:15:40 huh, i wonder if some debugging cruft worked its way in 2011-08-16T15:19:34 * dbs is using 183 MARC records with only 856 $9, no physical holdings, so that might be an issue 2011-08-16T15:25:13 ahh 2011-08-16T15:25:20 title_extended doesn't appear to be defined? 2011-08-16T15:25:23 *** jenny1 has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T15:25:51 an issue for opac/parts/record/summary.tt2 at least 2011-08-16T15:27:16 *** jenny has quit IRC 2011-08-16T15:29:15 *** StephenGWills has left #evergreen 2011-08-16T15:30:47 another merge snafu, probably 2011-08-16T15:30:52 i can fix 2011-08-16T15:31:27 sweet 2011-08-16T15:33:18 pushed 2011-08-16T15:36:29 *** sfortin has quit IRC 2011-08-16T15:38:04 cool - we have a title now! still have the XML::LibXML::Element=SCALAR(0x7fcac461ecb0) at the top of the record details page, though, so that wasn't it. 2011-08-16T15:38:05 bah 2011-08-16T15:38:20 dbs: results page? 2011-08-16T15:38:22 oh 2011-08-16T15:38:23 URIs aren't showing, must poke 2011-08-16T15:38:26 sorry details page 2011-08-16T15:38:55 yeah, I'm getting the XML::LibXML stuff on both results & record details 2011-08-16T15:39:13 dbs: got a page I can se? 2011-08-16T15:39:16 er, see 2011-08-16T15:39:45 running on my laptop, I'm afraid 2011-08-16T15:39:53 could screen cap it if that would help 2011-08-16T15:40:03 page source would be best 2011-08-16T15:40:16 of course :) 2011-08-16T15:40:23 * dbs forgets how to debug with TT 2011-08-16T15:42:33 tt_debug++ 2011-08-16T15:42:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124065 2011-08-16T15:43:19 (had to snip after the first XML::LibXML entry but the pattern is the same - right in between each result table 2011-08-16T15:45:41 *** matt_carlson has quit IRC 2011-08-16T15:46:20 *** kmlussier has quit IRC 2011-08-16T15:49:10 huh. added a call number and now Call Number displays as "Call number: HASH(0x7fcac4206bd8)" instead of just sitting there blank 2011-08-16T15:49:16 *** matt_carlson has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T15:50:14 which makes me think that a conifer branch that formatted the holdings in results using the current library / location / call number / status approach became the detailed view - ah, and it is 2011-08-16T15:51:16 but call number = args.holdings.0 fails because, minimally, it needs to become args.holdings.0.label 2011-08-16T15:51:19 * dbs will test and push 2011-08-16T15:54:12 dbs: that wasn't the goal of detail_view so much as a side-effect. still some work to do w/ that 2011-08-16T15:54:55 okay, well I'll fix the call number display at least 2011-08-16T15:55:13 I think that resolves the XML::LibXML stuff actually - one sec 2011-08-16T15:55:29 k 2011-08-16T15:55:50 some of the structure of record details looks dubious to me but I'll worry about that later 2011-08-16T15:56:45 example: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124066 2011-08-16T15:57:33 *** Meliss has quit IRC 2011-08-16T16:14:42 *** collum has quit IRC 2011-08-16T16:16:58 ungh 2011-08-16T16:17:01 attrs vs. args 2011-08-16T16:27:06 *** natschil has quit IRC 2011-08-16T16:31:36 *** artunit_ has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T16:31:54 *** artunit has quit IRC 2011-08-16T16:31:54 *** artunit_ is now known as artunit 2011-08-16T16:32:47 *** sfortin has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T16:35:08 *** jenny1 has left #evergreen 2011-08-16T16:36:27 *** sfortin has quit IRC 2011-08-16T16:39:19 aha, attrs.resolver_isbn = XML::LibXML::Element=SCALAR(0x7fd823cead70) 2011-08-16T16:41:45 that resolves that (another push coming) 2011-08-16T16:47:24 much better, and pushed 2011-08-16T16:50:06 t-pac login requires barcode, doesn't accept username, that's a familiar issue 2011-08-16T16:52:40 dbs: works w/ username if opac.barcode_regex is configured 2011-08-16T16:53:16 huh, unlike JSPAC 2011-08-16T16:53:53 *** wolf29 has left #evergreen 2011-08-16T16:54:12 * dbs would be tempted to switch the defaults but can accept things as is with that config req 2011-08-16T16:54:19 * dbs needs to roll for now 2011-08-16T17:00:04 dbs: agreed it should be switch for consistency. will do it at some point if you don't 2011-08-16T17:02:06 Crazy idea: offline checkout on 1.6.0, processed on 2.1 after a system upgrade. Insane, or super-insane? 2011-08-16T17:04:22 *** akilsdonk has quit IRC 2011-08-16T17:19:01 jeff: I would recommend having them upgrade their clients to 2.1 and run the 2.1 offline mode 2011-08-16T17:19:40 Or, if you have control over it, force-push the 2.1 client as you take down the 1.6 system 2011-08-16T17:24:12 all good ideas. 2011-08-16T17:24:52 though offline mode likes to have connected to the production server at least once -- it could/would probably leverage the config from 1.6 after upgrading the client. 2011-08-16T17:25:18 and i wouldn't expect the client-server time delta to be different between server_old and server_new. 2011-08-16T17:25:30 not significantly different, at least. 2011-08-16T17:25:34 worth a thought. 2011-08-16T17:45:50 *** natschil has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T17:46:16 *** yboston has quit IRC 2011-08-16T17:51:56 *** bjwebb has quit IRC 2011-08-16T18:04:36 *** bjwebb has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T18:16:26 Question about client compiled from trunk... Is there some reason why I'm getting browser warnings that half the Record Summary/Bib Record page is encrypted after I add a new item? Don't remember that happening earlier. 2011-08-16T18:19:34 sal_: New features to push more encryption. Google features, such as the google book code, tend to not be rigged to work with encryption enabled for generic use, though. 2011-08-16T18:21:09 tsbere: thanks. 'satiable curiosity strikes again. 2011-08-16T18:26:29 *** natschil has quit IRC 2011-08-16T18:37:23 *** sal_ has quit IRC 2011-08-16T18:51:27 *** youdonotexist has quit IRC 2011-08-16T19:27:33 *** edoceo has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T20:49:09 *** bjwebb has quit IRC 2011-08-16T20:52:15 *** Callender has quit IRC 2011-08-16T21:02:21 * jeff ponders easier ways to allow a single person to pay fines for the whole family 2011-08-16T21:02:33 "add these fines to my cart", perhaps. :-) 2011-08-16T21:36:24 *** tsbere has quit IRC 2011-08-16T21:36:27 *** tsbere_ has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T22:00:15 *** Callender has joined #evergreen 2011-08-16T22:12:09 *** tsbere_ is now known as tsbere 2011-08-16T22:32:07 jeff: I bet the existing payment.create method doesn't care who pays what xacts, so we could probably pull the foreign xacts into a given bills interface (after pressing a button and checking some permissions) and pretend they're normal xacts for the patron making a payment 2011-08-16T22:33:28 would maybe want to touch the last_xact_id for the patrons being affected though, to help prevent the chance of duplicate payments against the same transactions (say the group member was also paying bills around the same time) 2011-08-16T22:47:26 there's no "this user paid" on payments, just "this staff member accepted here" 2011-08-16T22:47:29 iirc. 2011-08-16T22:47:33 from memory. 2011-08-16T22:48:29 had a patron pay ~1, 0.25, and 0.25 as three online card transactions today. happens rarely, but made me think -- make the process a few steps shorter for the user, save the library a buck or so. 2011-08-16T22:49:45 i've also considered forgiving <$1 of fines if someone makes a credit card payment, and voiding the payment with the card processor -- not sure if that violates their terms or if that even avoids the charges. ;-) 2011-08-16T22:50:23 ha 2011-08-16T22:51:36 guess we could shove user data in the payment note (yuck) 2011-08-16T22:51:56 of course, if there's an issue there we could just say "thanks for clicking the pay fines online button -- all is forgiven! you didn't owe nearly enough for us to bother collecting. now, go do something nice for someone!" 2011-08-16T22:52:23 thing is, i don't care about shoving user data in the payment note. not a major issue. :-) 2011-08-16T22:53:16 start having folks pre-pay their fines.. there's a bucket of accounting nightmare for some libraries 2011-08-16T22:54:32 Every fine interval you earn demerits. You can buy library points in bulk, and use them to clear demerits :) 2011-08-16T22:57:45 we've considered patron karma. 2011-08-16T22:58:11 bonus points for returning books early / on time, points for picking up holds promptly vs letting them sit for a week on the shelf before you get them. 2011-08-16T22:58:31 idea at the time was "reward == free hot titles, waive the $1" 2011-08-16T22:58:35 Georgia has some laws concerning library fines; probably can't muck much with the concept here 2011-08-16T22:58:44 but since we no longer charge a rental fee for hot titles... 2011-08-16T22:59:52 it'd have to be something else. and then there's a question of equal/fair treatment for all patrons... can be touchy. 2011-08-16T23:00:29 "why does patron in situation X get perks for being able to come to the library on short notice, when our family can only make it once a week?", etc. 2011-08-16T23:00:35 a valid concern. 2011-08-16T23:01:18 yeah 2011-08-16T23:14:04 for later (I'm not here!) see the "friend" architecture for paying not-my-bills 2011-08-16T23:14:34 * phasefx thinks eeevil was here 2011-08-16T23:14:50 nope, it's all an illusion 2011-08-16T23:15:21 * phasefx rolls for disbelief 2011-08-16T23:15:58 @dice 1d20 2011-08-16T23:15:58 phasefx: 4 2011-08-16T23:16:17 * phasefx is duped by eevil's illusion 2011-08-16T23:16:34 thus, eeevil was here 2011-08-16T23:27:02 * jeff does a little black-boxing with a sip client 2011-08-16T23:27:08 poke, prod, aha! 2011-08-16T23:27:14 poke, poke, what the? 2011-08-16T23:27:34 jab, twist, oh, i see! 2011-08-16T23:29:51 shadow-boxing? 2011-08-16T23:33:57 *** jamesrf has quit IRC 2011-08-16T23:36:48 *** matt_carlson has quit IRC